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Post by Hishirugi Maximillion on Jul 4, 2010 17:43:17 GMT -5
Ahh, but making it all available anyways is what keeps it entertaining for all. Perhaps some Genins would really HATE menial tasks. On the other hand, there are genins who would enjoy the task.
Remember, a Mission only need be COMPLETED. If you are raking up leaves, but happen to have an (approved) Wind Jutsu that gets the job done a little quicker and you can use the rest of the time developing a relationship with other RPCs/NPCs, that's good too.
Coz, remember, Konohagakure is the most coddlesome Village in the series. Villages like Hidden Mist and Hidden Stone are far more strict on their younger village members.
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Post by kazukikun on Jul 4, 2010 18:51:21 GMT -5
True, but as you said, there's a chance some people will really hate such menial tasks. I think we should first focus on ideas that have a greater chance at pleasing the widest range people, and then go down the list if those ideas prove to be impossible. It's like making a video game; there's a magical blend of realism and fantasy that, when discovered, creates an unrivaled sense of fun. In this case, "realism" refers to the Naruto universe in its entirety, and "fantasy" is the change we make to said universe. We should focus on what in the Naruto universe is actually fun, while clipping away or altering what isn't.
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Post by Hishirugi Maximillion on Jul 5, 2010 2:16:44 GMT -5
Here is a Mission Example I made. XP is the "Mission Points" I mentioned, which basically indicate that character's Shinobi "Battle Power". Higher Battle Power, regardless of official Village Rank, will open up higher-ranking Missions, thus playing along with the series and how Genin/Chuunin can be assigned Chuunin/Jounin Missions from time to time.:
Fame is a system I've used before, which basically says how popular your character is. You can do good things to build your Fame (as a good person) or Infamy (as an evil person) depending on your actions throughout your life, and the larger those numbers are, the more people know of you.....which is not always a good thing.
After all, for every Goody Two Shoes, there are villains ready to cut them down where they stand.
But for every Uber Villain, there are good guys and heroes ready to cut THEM down where they stand.
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Post by kazukikun on Jul 5, 2010 9:37:40 GMT -5
I really don't want to use stats of any kind; all we really need is a mission tally. Also, I can't envision anything that I'd want to do on the site that would require having an exp system, so I don't see why we'd need them. I know Barry feels the same way about them, so I doubt they'd be permitted, even if I green-lighted them.
Last night, I did some thinking - about a system that tied together some loose ends that have been bugging me. There were various things that I've been indecisive about; the purpose of kages, the utilization of squads, etc. In the end, this is what I came up with:
Every village with have its own kage, which will act as both a moderator for that board and keep track of completed missions for every ninja of his village, and as a mission guide in his spare time. That kage will also hire one or more people to assist him. These people won't have any moderation power; their sole purpose is to be mission guides, and to report any misconduct that they happen to witness to the kage for him/her to take care of.
Like in the Naruto universe, 3 Genin will be placed under the command of an active Jounin of their village. Since they'll be going on D ranked ranked missions, which usually have no external conflict that might present physical danger for a ninja, the Jounin will actually be responsible for guiding the missions, as opposed to the kage or the specialized mission guides they hire. (I have the feeling there's a lot more potential in what we can do with Jounin squads, so I'm actively thinking about what else we could do here)
Once the Genin have completed enough missions (I believe 8 is the required amount in the Naruto universe, but I'm not 100% sure), they can take the Chuunin exams. How a forum version of the Chuunin exams would operate has been a subject of debate for quite awhile. Probably the most entertaining solution is to skip directly to the tournament, where qualifying Genin from every village competes against each other in 1 on 1 battles, while the staff watches and debates amongst themselves, who has enough RP skill to be promoted to Chuunin.
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Post by Hishirugi Maximillion on Jul 5, 2010 10:52:47 GMT -5
Hmm, that doesn't sound half bad. I would like to try and get something going soon, though. My urge to RP is becoming difficult to ignore!
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Post by kazukikun on Jul 5, 2010 12:00:41 GMT -5
Yeah, I haven't RPed in ages. The sooner we get everything up and running, the better. I'm a bit worried by the lack of user activity, despite me giving the green-light for applications and role-play. If our userbase doesn't increase in the near future, we my have to add advertising/affiliation to our agenda.
Also, a couple more things came to mind just recently when I was thinking of additional benefits for Genin when under the command of a Jounin instructor. The first thing is that I discovered a flaw in my original plan; missions after you graduate to Chuunin level become pointless. By the looks of things, I guess we will have to include a currency system, after all. Implementing one won't be as hard as I originally thought, as we don't necessarily have to create a store like I originally thought; we can just put a price tag on our custom template that varies depending on technique rank, as well as other things.
Have currency also combos well with the next thing I came up with, which goes back to my contemplating if there was more we could do Genin squads. The old NE used to have a special template that you'd use if you were learning a technique from someone else. When you buy a technique, it's sort of like you're buying the "scroll" for the technique. However, if you're learning it through the training of another, then shouldn't it be free? My only concern is that this is subject to abuse, so I'm a bit skeptical. Of course, we can always create limitations to patch it up if we discover ways that such a thing can be taken advantage of.
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Post by Hishirugi Maximillion on Jul 5, 2010 13:31:26 GMT -5
Well, if we use currency for purchasing Jutsu, Weapons and Kekkei Genkai bonuses (one attribute per purchase, etc), and the Mission Points for determining a Shinobi's odds of winning a fight, we'll have a regulated system without having to implement "stats".
Thing is, we will need to have people submit their Missions and Roleplays for review and grading before they get those benefits. It's going to be hard to keep track of things and prevent foul play if we don't get to review each thread as it's completed.
Also, here is another thought. I devised a system where Jutsu can be learned, but it depends almost entirely upon the work put into it. In between each post (this is where Mr Arikado's Administrative skills come in), a grade is given by a mod (there would be a thread where people post when they need graded), whereupon they will know if they require further training or not.
Of course, a more experienced Ninjas (ie: Mission system) will have an easier time of learning new Jutsu than someone who is fresh out of the Academy with only basic skills. But in this way, the entire weight of the Review/Approve process won't be entirely on us, nor on the players needing reviewed.
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Post by kazukikun on Jul 5, 2010 13:55:29 GMT -5
I don't like the idea of mission points. The only thing that should separate whether or not you can win a fight, learn jutsu, etc., is your own RP skill; nothing else. I think missions should be used as nothing more than a way of accumulating currency, and to add another completed mission to your total for bragging rights.
As for your jutsu system, I was thinking sort of the same thing. For jutsu learned from another, the template would be pretty much the same as the normal jutsu template, but include a "thread where your character is being taught the technique" option, which the staff will use to the review the thread. This should only be done for techniques being learned, though; doing this for all jutsu would be too time consuming.
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Post by Hishirugi Maximillion on Jul 5, 2010 14:05:59 GMT -5
Look, I know you are initially opposed to my idea, but why not try it? You went and did a 180 on the boards with what, based on the intel you had at the time, you thought was a good idea at the time.
I assure you, there is no wrist-cutting or self-dissection involved. It works, it encourages people to use hard work instead of godmodding to produce strong shinobi, and it will encourage activity from people who're tired of new, inactive joinees portraying themselves as being on an even tier with harder-working players.
You've went out on a limb for less stable ideas in the past. I only ask that you hear me out, give it a try, THEN give it the proverbial 'hairy eyeball' if you absolutely must.
I mean, seriously? Far more strange and foreign concepts have been introduced in the past.
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Post by kazukikun on Jul 5, 2010 14:12:01 GMT -5
Try to explain the whole "mission points" a little more in-depth; the way you explained it in your previous post didn't really do it justice.
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Post by Hishirugi Maximillion on Jul 5, 2010 15:28:26 GMT -5
Ok, here is a Rough Draft. The more in-depth data is on another computer, so I hafta do what I can with this one..
So, let's say Kagekami Arikado completed 3 S-Rank Missions last week (real-time). If he had previously completed 5 D-Ranks, 8 C-Ranks, 3 B-Ranks and 1 A-Rank, he will have accumulated 89 (if I did my math right) Mission Points.
Now obviously, a Shinobi who has done enough Missions to have 89-90 Missions Points will have enough field knowledge and experience to make doing other complicated things (Learning Jutsu, fighting tough battles, etc) a little easier for them. So, when going against someone with only 3 Mission Points (such as a Genin), the person with the most practical knowledge and field experience would have an edge. Am I saying they have a guaranteed win ahead of them? No. But they will definitely have an edge.
Now obviously, a person's skill and experience should play into their Village Rank. So many points for Genin, so many points for Chuunin, so many points for Jounin, etc.
Naturally, they would have to do the respective Exams, or be recruited for those ranks by their Kage, but they would become ELIGIBLE once they reached so many Mission Points.
And thusly, once reaching the next rank, learning Jutsu of equivalent or lesser Rank willl become easier.
Here is a system I set up ages ago, although it was based more on an individual Shinobi's "Class" (E-S) rather than their Village Rank:
So, using this system, things become easier the more experience and knowledge you attain and learn to execute.
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Post by kazukikun on Jul 5, 2010 15:48:07 GMT -5
Hmm, it sounds solid enough, so we could probably implement it. I asked Barry if he'd join in on the conversation, as I'd like to get his input on everything we've discussed up until this point. He'll review it tomorrow, so until then, we'll have to wait.
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Post by Hishirugi Maximillion on Jul 5, 2010 17:30:50 GMT -5
Sounds good.
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Post by Melody Kari Starlight on Jul 6, 2010 14:21:47 GMT -5
Ok, here is a Rough Draft. The more in-depth data is on another computer, so I hafta do what I can with this one.. So, let's say Kagekami Arikado completed 3 S-Rank Missions last week (real-time). If he had previously completed 5 D-Ranks, 8 C-Ranks, 3 B-Ranks and 1 A-Rank, he will have accumulated 89 (if I did my math right) Mission Points. Now obviously, a Shinobi who has done enough Missions to have 89-90 Missions Points will have enough field knowledge and experience to make doing other complicated things (Learning Jutsu, fighting tough battles, etc) a little easier for them. So, when going against someone with only 3 Mission Points (such as a Genin), the person with the most practical knowledge and field experience would have an edge. Am I saying they have a guaranteed win ahead of them? No. But they will definitely have an edge. Now obviously, a person's skill and experience should play into their Village Rank. So many points for Genin, so many points for Chuunin, so many points for Jounin, etc. Naturally, they would have to do the respective Exams, or be recruited for those ranks by their Kage, but they would become ELIGIBLE once they reached so many Mission Points. And thusly, once reaching the next rank, learning Jutsu of equivalent or lesser Rank willl become easier. Here is a system I set up ages ago, although it was based more on an individual Shinobi's "Class" (E-S) rather than their Village Rank: So, using this system, things become easier the more experience and knowledge you attain and learn to execute. I really like this idea. We could add a level like Genin can only know so much ad have to be Chunnin until they can learn more. Same gose for Chunnin, Jonin, and up.
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Post by kazukikun on Jul 6, 2010 14:49:55 GMT -5
The only thing I don't like about this system is the heavy focus on learning jutsu through actual role-play. I want the learning of jutsu to be instantaneous, for the most part. As I said before, I only want people to have to go through a training process if they're learning a jutsu from another person. Overall, I'd like a system that's a little more condensed; something very simple to understand.
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Post by Hishirugi Maximillion on Jul 6, 2010 16:50:37 GMT -5
Learning jutsu isn't instantaneous in the series. As a matter of fact, some of the greatest episodes of Naruto was witnessing the rigors a Shinobi went through to learn or perfect a Jutsu or other technique.
I understand you want your cookies on a platter, already shaped into Gingerbread Men with the frosting all neatly done on top of it.
However, people will have more pride in their efforts and endeavors if they have to personally take the dough, the frosting, etc. and make the cookies themselves. Why does a good parent not just HAND a car over to their kid? Because the kid will have no pride in the car, will probably wreck it or fail to keep it lubed and/or maintained, and it will be run into the ground.
It's been proven time and time again. It was one of the biggest things I saw on the OOC threads people used to post in their suggestions for NE. "Make it so that things have to be earned, not just freely given".
Again, as I said before Kazu-chan, I haven't overlooked the fact that you personally prefer an RPG where anyone can come out of anywhere with all the Jutsu they will know or learn already integrated into their Storyline.
But if you're looking for quality AND quantity (not just one or the other), you've gotta TEACH the men how to fish, not just hand them free McDonalds fish sandwiches. >.>
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Post by kazukikun on Jul 6, 2010 17:09:15 GMT -5
I'm aware that learning jutsu isn't instantaneous in the series, but I already told you that I have no intention of mimicking the series 100%; I'm cutting away a lot of what is mundane about the series for the sake of fun.
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Post by Hishirugi Maximillion on Jul 6, 2010 19:18:32 GMT -5
Mundane? Learning Jutsu is character-building, all puns intended!
Meh. If you implement the Mission system as I detailed it above, and you also implement the Ryo system (currency), I can turn a blind eye to auto-jutsus.
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Post by Melody Kari Starlight on Jul 7, 2010 3:27:51 GMT -5
How about a trainning thread? Where the number of post along with how much one types in each post is how they learn a justsu?
IE:
Chakra Enjitou (Chakra Scalpel) Rank: C Skill: Ninjutsu Effect: The user creates a two inch long scalpel of chakra extending from the tips of their fingers. Special: -- Drawback: If the user is struck with a C rank or higher technique their concentration will falter and the scalpel will dissolve. Description: The user gathers a powerful aura of chakra around their fingers, creating a faint blade shape extending from their fingertips and glowing blue. This scalpel is two inches long and, if the user chooses, can be extended beneath the skin, to cut without breaking the skin. This scalpel is as hard as steel and can cut through muscles, arteries, and bones. Limit: Must be a medic, must know Shosen no Jutsu.
The above the jutsu the person wants to learn. And below is the post needed as well as training points:
0/20 TP (Training Points)
Number of posts from person: 2 staff memeber needs to add points when they have posted 1 post.
Melody went to the training grounds in hope that her sensei would be there to train her. She smiled happy as she went there and calmly waited. It was unheard of for her to be late. Melody waited and waited she began to get worried as her sensei had not shown up yet and a whole hour had passed. She sighed before something a bird it seemed dropped a note with her name on it. Melody opened it up and started to read the note. It told her how to do the jutsu and that her sensei would be there at noon. That meant Melody had all morning to learn on her own. She smiled as she looked at the part that showed her and told her how to do the Chakra Scalpel. She started to gather her chakra calmly and then did the handseals that the note had told her as well as how to do it. She calmly foucsed her charka until she felt it go into her finger tips and then saw less then a inch of charka. Melody made a face as she then saw it vanish. She found she had a harder time then most as it left her.
She sighed and tried again. She would close her eyes and think about her chakra then foucse them into her finger tips. She could feel them slowly going to her finger tips and as she opened her eyes she saw them less then an inch again. She growled at this and then made a huff. She couldn't understand why she couldn't do it. Why oh why could she make then less then an inch of these chakra scalpels? She sighed as she kept trying. This went on for three more hours before she beagn to pant. She had always found training to learn a new jutsu hard. And this was the same for her, hard. She made up her made to do it one more time. The wind picked up as she began to foucse her chakra and then calmly as she could she began to feel it going towards her finger tips and then out of them, this time she waited until she was sure or at least felt sure that her chakra was an inch before she opened her eyes. The wind began to blow her hair into her eyes. She looked down at her finger tips and saw that they was still only half an inch out. Yet they stayed there longer then they had normally would.
This made Melody happy somewhat yet she still didn't know how to get them to become longer like they was meant to. Which made her feel like she had or was doing something wrong. She sighed when she saw them fade away. By now it was only 10:00am and she knew she had little time before her sensei would come and see how much progress she had made. She felt a bit scared and woundered if she should hide or if she should leave and go find something else to do beside train. Then she shook her head as she knew that she had to train. She needed to become stronger then what she was. She needed to prove to herself that she is strong and can do this. Otherwise what was the point of it all? So she went back to train doing the handseals and then foucseing her chakra into her finger tips and then makeing them go out. She took calm deep breaths keeping in mind what she was trying to get. This time she felt as if they had gone more out then they had and opened her eyes. Sure enough this time they ahd gone out more then nomal. They was now an inch. Yes that's right a whole inch, yet Melody knew she needed one more inch in order to get it done.
She was getting bord with this justu yet she wanted to know it in case she needed to use it. Yes she would have to use it. She sighed long and hard as she spent one more hour with the same results. It only came out an inch for her. Maybe she was not useing her chakra right. She thought as she looked at her hands as if they could tell her what she needs to do in order to get the justu. Then she did the handseals again and took to takeing deep breaths. This time she had her eyes opened and looked at her hands calmly. as she foucsed her chakra into her finger tips and being to push them out to form the chakra scalpel. They went to an inch and a half, this made Melody blink as she kept pushing and she soon saw something esle that she had missed. The chakra scalpel took on a faint blade shape as it come to it's full length which is two inches. Melody was so into looking at what she had made she didn't notice that her sensei had came early.
Up in a tree Kaede Sensei watched Melody she had been watching her for three hours but never made a move to go and tell her. She was smiling at her student who seemed to be shocked at what she had done for herself. Yet Kaede Sensei was not done with her. No she wanted to see if she could do it at will. Kaede Sensei jumped down from the tree and landed in front of Melody. "Hello there long time no see" She greated her student. WHo jumped and made the chakra scalpels vanish. "Oh Kaede Sensei there you are. Look what I can do" Melody said happy as she made the handseals once again and foucseing her chakra into her finger tips she made the faded blade of chakra scalpels that was two inches. This time she made it in half the time that it had taken her from when she first started.
Staff added 10 TP
Melody smiled yet Kaede sensei was not. Her face seemed to be grim as she looked at Melody calmly. "Umm wh..what's wrong?" Melody asked as Kaede gave her a dark look. "What's wrong? I'll tell you what is wrong, you have to be faster then that. I want to you keep at it until you get faster then you are now, understand?" She asked with a hiss. Her eyes locked onto Melody in a very cold and dark matter. Melody knew that her sensei was right she was takeing to slow and she also knew that she was being silly herself for not thinking it sooner. Not only that Melody knew she lacked something that the other ninja's of sound did not. She lacked being brave. She was not brave like the others. She was not very skilled due to her wanting more missions and forgetting to come train. Kaede sensei was right when she had said she needed to be faster. Yes ninjas was always fast. Yet Melody for what it was worth seemed to also lack that. Once she got the basics of a justu she seemed to keep it at a slow speed and she knew she needed to be much faster then what she was now.
And so she nodded as if to say she heard and understood. A trail bit of saddness lay in her eyes as she felt she had let down her sensei and so to right this wrong she made up her mind to train. And so Melody made the headseals once more and started to concertate on her chakra. Foucseing it into her fingertips. Trying to make it grow the two inches that it was needed. She knew now she would have to train in speed for this now to be at the level that her sensei would want. And that is what Melody will do. She could see that she was somehow unable this time round to make the chakra scalpel. Unlike last time round she only had less then half of a chakra scalpel. She blinked as she looked at it and blushed sightly. "This is why I wanted you to train in speed and to blance your chakra. If you don't have the speed your foes could win. And easy beat you until you are dead. Yet you need the right amount in any jutsu in order to get the jutsu to work. If you have one but not the other, then you may lose the fight more then you would win it. I have seen it in many ninja before. Now try again" Kaede sensei told her with a stren voice that left nothing to the mind of what she could do if she was not happy. And Melody kenw that she didn't feel like training in any harsh way and also knew that her sensei was right.
"Yes sensei" Melody said with more bravey then she felt. She took a deep breath and tried to calm down. It was hard with her sensei looking at her with a cool and calm look about her. It was hard when she felt she was not strong enough or good enough yet she pushed those thoughts behind her. She wanted to be a great fighter. A hero of sorts yet she didn't know what type. She smiled a little as she tried again this time with speed however once again she didn't make the reach of her chakra scalpel. It was only half an inch. Kaede sensei just shook her head and sighed. The justu vanish leaveing Melody to do it again. Yet she needed a small break and Kaede sensei could see it. "Take a short break then come back here and try again" Melody only nodded as if to say she understood and started to go to the cafe. She ordered what she would normally eat and drink. When her order came she ate and drunk what she had ordered and then made her way back to the training grounds to give it one more go.
As Melody came back she once again notice that Kaede sensei was no where to be seen. Melody could only smile a little as she kenw that her sensei was watching from somewhere. Yet that still meant that Melody had to make this justu work for her and had to find away to use both speed and blance together and not just one and not the other. She knew that ehr sensei was right and therefore she knew she just had to find that way. It would be alright to use the speed but without blance then she didn't stand much of a chance at makeing the justu reach it's full length. Which was indeed two inches. So Melody throught for a moment and did the headseals that she knew for this justu at a speed while at the same time trying to keep a good blance of her chakra. The bule chakra from the chakra scalpel went to her finger tips and made a small balde shape. Melody kept it up trying to make the balde shape become two inches long. However for some unknown reason the blade was only one inch. This meant that Melody needed to foucse her charka even more with both speed and blance of her charka, then it hit home. Melody now knew that Kaede had left out something so she could find it on her own. Her sensei had left out that she needed both speed, blance and foucse on her chakra for all justus to work. Now knowing this was one thing, but to put it into real life in order to do the justu was something else all together.
Melody took a new deep calm breath, and thought for a moment in how to use all three, to do the justu and hopefully any other justu's in time to come. She then made the headseals useing some speed yet it was not as fast as most ninja's as she was still new to this. However saying that it was fast enough so she didn't make any mistakes. Then she foucsed her chakra and kept a steadiy blance of said chakra. The chakra run through her body to the tips of her finger tips and out into a blue point. Melody kept foucs and kept the blance up, as the blue chakra took shape. Now it looked more like a balde however it was only one and a half inch long. Melody looked at it and sighed and woundered what she was doing wrong. She thought about it and couldn't think why it went wrong. Maybe she didn't use enough of her chakra to do the jutsu.
Melody sighed as she started to strach and losen up a little. She would give it one more go. She then did the handseals at her speed that she was able to do, and started to foucse as well as keep up the blance of her chakra. As did this she could feel her chakra flow through her body towards ehr finger tips as she had wanted them to do. Then she kept up the blance and foucse as she started to shape the chakra into a balde shape while at the same time makeing the chakra go outwards to what had hoped to be two inches. It was just under two inches at this point as Melody foucsed and kept the blance as well as started to maintain the flow of her chakra. She forcsed it and maintained it wile at the same time she kept up the blance. Soon the chakra scalpel was two inches and she smiled as Kaede who had been watching her smirked from the tree she was in. She saw that Melody had understood what was needed and she hoped the next time she trained the girl she would not forget what she learned today. She jumped out of the tree and walked over to Melody who had by now made the chakra scalpel vanish. "Well done it seems you now understand what I needed you to do in order to get stronger. One must be both fast when doing the headseals and then they must always keep foucse as well as keeping a blance at the same time. Not only that they must also maintain it. You have done well to get this far so well done I am proud of you" Kaede sensei said with a knowing smirk. Melody blushed a light pink at the words her sensei had just said and smiled as well. "Thank you sensei I will keep that in mind." Came her words as she gave a bow.
Staff adds 10 more TP Jutsu learned.
What do think of that?
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Post by kazukikun on Jul 7, 2010 14:28:59 GMT -5
We're going to have special training threads for jutsu that you're learning through another, but for jutsu that you learn by yourself, you don't have to make a special thread for it. I don't want the RP boards to become clogged with nothing but training threads.
Anyway, now that I think about it, this mission system conflicts with a lot of the changes that have already been made on the site, so I'm returning to the drawing board. There's far more condensed options to choose from. I'll might have a complete system thought up sometime today, but probably not.
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